On Evil Plotbunnies – the Furred Horror

~ crossovercreativechaos

There are some ideas that should never see the light of day. Ever.

You know the ones I’m talking about. The crackfic bunnies. The absurd, or too emotionally painful, or just plain “That really wouldn’t work.” The ones that ambush you out of nowhere when you are too tired and should really just go to bed. The ones that stick in your head, regardless, and mock you. Like a bunch of teenagers around the hyena enclosure. (Buffy fans know exactly which one – yes, that level of predatory evil.) Never mind that they might just be a setup for a bad joke, never mind that you only know half the fandoms and you don’t want to put in the effort for the others, never mind that you know you couldn’t do justice to X kind of story. They’re there. Hanging out in your headspace. Keeping you awake at oh-dark-hundred. They’re evil.

I’ll toss you a few of the utterly ridiculous that have ambushed me over the past few months.

Aliens/Ubel Blatt: Would only be moderately amusing, in that the UB world characters would scarcely blink at the Xenomorphs. They’d just scream “Wischtech monster!” and proceed to Kill It With Fire.

They’d win, too. Especially Koinzell. I suspect those Black Swords would be very acid-resistant.

Magi/Sing(movie) crossover: Zepar in the singing contest.

…Oh, the horror, the horror…. Although I suspect Ja’far would be secretly amused.

Stargate SG-1/Magi canon: Oh man, this would be a disaster. I could just barely see it as possible if the Magi world were one the Goa’uld didn’t know about – if they did, they’d probably try to kill the planet! But the main problem would be, how do you come up with a plot that lets SG-1 have equal time with a bunch of people who can toss around Djinn Equip? Ack.

Star Wars/Magi: Again, ack. Although I figured out ways to explain both Djinn and Dark Djinn in that ‘verse (look up Derriphan for some ideas on Dark Djinn analogs, eep), Djinn Warriors and Magi… really don’t fit the power level of Jedi/Sith equation. They’re both too powerful, and there are far too few of them, to really fit as Force-using types. Drat. Because Sinbad and co as smugglers would fit so well!

Mind, if anyone does figure out a way to pull these various ideas off, let me know. I want to read!

137 thoughts on “On Evil Plotbunnies – the Furred Horror”

  1. Didn’t Saiyuki-Magi get mentioned once? Because that would be scary. Kanzeon as a King. Hell, I suspect Sanzo could be, too, despite (or in spite of) his charming temperament. Goku… honestly, I could see him as a Djinn, almost. Or another Aladdin situation, but one of him is more than enough. Gojyo can pass as a Fanalis, looks-wise. Hakkai… Honestly, no changes.

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    1. Goku as one of Sanzo’s Household Members?

      Sanzo: *Facepalm* Why. Just why.

      Gojyo as a half-Fanalis like Mu might be interesting.

      >Hakkai… Honestly, no changes.

      …For some reason this makes the bunnies giggle uncontrollably. Evil critters that they are.

      Yes. This would be very, very scary… although there’d have to be a good analogue to the whole youkai madness mess for this to really work…

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      1. Unfortunately, I never finished reading Magi. I wouldn’t have a clue how to merge it into Saiyuki properly. Doesn’t help that I can’t finish Saiyuki itself, either. Wish they’d finish the English translation… And I wish I could actually find it in bookstores.

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      3. Um… In reference to the youkai madness, how about a transmit able version of that thing that got Alibaba. It looked like a snake. Why not have one that looks like a butterfly or bird. If you release it in areas with a lot of black rukh people will mistake it as part of that or just a weird insect/bird. For white rukh areas, oooohhh pretty. Have it bite someone, infect them and over the course of a few days it can slowly change their behaviour. However, I admit to not knowing Magi that well so I may have gotten things wrong.

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      5. I suppose Black Rukh could pass as a slower version of the minus wave. But who are the ‘Youkai’? Magicians, Magoi users, or are there actual youkai in this AU?

        Additionally, who is Gyuumaoh in this? Any working relation to David, or is he another Big Bad?

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      7. Re: Gyaomaoh

        You know how Al-Thamen is using the royalty of Kou to further its goals of destroying the world? Maybe that wasn’t the first time they’ve tried it. The first time it was Gyaomaoh, a youkai (which like Fanalis and Pisti’s people are ones that more obvious about their non-human ancestry) ruler of a kingdom. He ruled primarily by fear so it was good match with Al-Thamen. Everything was coming up roses for Gyaomaoh when the double-cross happened – the world was only saved by the actions of our quartet’s past lives and their allies. Barely.

        His wife still wants to bring him back and thinks she’s found the way – the energy from this has very nasty side-effects for people with non-human ancestry. Yokai are the worst affected but the others are experiencing their own share of different but noticeable nasty problems. Which considering how little of the population of this world is pure human, this has been causing a lot of trouble. Not that Psycho Queen cares as long as she gets what she wants.

        Al-Thamen didn’t give her this idea (she hates them for their role in her husband’s death) but find the side-effects very useful for their plans and are taking full advantage.

        The bunnies like the idea of Yunan being very “Again?!” when he learns that Al-Thamen is pulling the same trick it had done with Gyaomaou with Kou . . . and the idiots are falling for it. Argghhh.

        The bunnies also like the idea of Goku and Alibaba being very distantly related – because they both have gold eyes.

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      9. >>And that’d mess up just about everybody>>

        Especially if the effects are different enough on the various species that it takes a bit to figure out that all of these problems have a singular source . . .

        And neatly explain how some people had missed things that they really should have picked up . . .

        Or allow for chances like maybe Alibaba isn’t as weak magoi-wise as we all think . . .

        And the bunnies just presented the idea that while the Imperial family might think this conquering the world for peace thing is a good idea, maybe not everyone in their country is enthused . . . like a certain Lady Kanzeon. But nobody pays much attention to that one, away in her little temple devoted to some very old gods (like the Mother Dragon or Creator Dragon . . .the Something Dragon) off in the mountains . . .

        Until one of her priests, one rather crankier than usual, starts problem-solving. Particularly since he thinks his country’s “plan” is the “Dumbest thing I’ve ever heard and I live with the monkey and those two idiots . . .”

        Or the Saiyuki characters are originally from a small country, one of the first conquered by Kou and are thus none too happy about the big Empire and very disdainful of its’ plan for world peace. Not helped by the fact that the Empire or it’s Al-Thamen plants have caused some of the ouch in their lives.

        Or combine those two – because I think Sanzo, regardless of where he came from, would declare that plan idiotic . . . loudly, repeatedly, and all over the place.

        And if they are rebels, it gives the Saiyuki gang an excuse not stay in any one place too long. Because the Empire is not amused. And Al-Thaman remembers those trouble-makers and don’t need them teaming up with the likes of Sinbad and that little blonde upstart in Balbadd . . .

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      10. *Bunnies stare at you with big, worshipful eyes.*

        Ooo my. *G* You know, some kind of area-affect madness would explain a lot of the craziness – like how Abhmad and co. could bring Balbadd to economic ruin in the three years since Alibaba vanished.

        *Takes notes. Lots of notes.*

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  2. Sometimes people pull it of though. There’s a Blue Exorcist/CardCaptor Sakura fic that I read that turned out to be pretty good and when I found the tropes page I thought it would be total crack. I’m so glad I was wrong.
    My tablet won’t let me post links for some reason so if your interested search for Inheritance of Magic and Demons on AO3.

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  3. I often mash up settings. Uselessly, as I’ve yet to really figure out plotting.

    I’ve probably forgotten most of the often used combinations. Stargate Atlantis/Saint Seiya, with Weir as the incarnation of Athena. Star Gate SG1/Campione, with the System Lords counting as Heretics, but powered down because most offworld sites are low mana. As backstory, Shikashima from Getter Robo and Yoshika from Strike Witches.

    If SG1 has been picking up mystical qualities from killing entities that had been worshiped on Earth ages ago, dropping them in an area with enough magic to make it noticeable sounds interesting.

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      1. Strike Witches is a fanservice vehicle about magical girls who strap planes to their legs in a WWII AU.
        (So AU that it is possible that none of the mass murders of the 20th century happened.) The warship drawings are very detailed and reportedly correct. Shikashima is a supporting character in a late Cold War era super robot series. He is a deranged old weapons scientist who was probably a war criminal during WWII.

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  4. GaoGaiGar and an AU Digimon ‘verse ambush me every now and then.

    So does GaoGaiGar and Bleach with a side order of “The Pink Menace’s reincarnation is Renais, and Kenpachi has pointed words for her boyfriend” to make it work. The mental image of the J-Ark arriving in Soul Society is hilarious, and utterly broken, because while its firepower might match a pair of Captian Shinigami, it’s a friggin’ space battleship. Not subtle, not small, and not simple to deal with. Plus, would the sentient AI have souls? Would those would be effected by Hollows? Would Ichigo meet Guy? Would the universe explode or implode from the sheer level of hot bloodiness?

    Also, GaoGaiGar meets SG-1. Slightly more plausible given GaoGaiGar has 4 known aliens on its team and a cannon alien invasion. Except giant robots would break SG1’s Sorting Algorithm of Evil, and the less thought on “What if Guy got snaked?” the better. Guy canonically has unfettered access to tech that’s on par with a Magi’verse’s King in Full Equip, for reference.

    … Yeah, my plot bunnies kind of have a thing for Giant Robots and a soft spot for Digimon. (It’s canonical in Digimon that multiple Digimon linked universes exist! Fresh carrot juice right there!)

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  5. My particular one that comes back to haunt me every so often? MFU (where Napoleon and Illya are Supernaturals of some sort, Illya as a feline shape-shifter) crossed with ST:TNG.

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    1. *Snrk* Reminds me of a MFU quote that keeps popping up in my head.
      Napoleon: “Are you free?”
      Ilya: “In this capitalist country, no man is truly free.” Beat. “However, I am available.”

      Yep. He would so do a good were-panther or something like that. 🙂

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  6. Tomb of Dracula and Castlevania. Yes, I know. Admittedly, the main problem is a)Tomb, while technically in the Marvel Universe, is fairly low powered, b)Castlevania is the opposite, a low powered universe with an high powered exception(inside the Castle).

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      1. I have to admit, part of the appeal is Hannibal King versus Death, yes. Or him and Alucard dealing with each other(I’d likely set that part near symphony, just because I’m the most familiar with it.)

        Thinking about it, it might work best to do it as two separate parts. Do Hannibal and Blade versus Deacon Frost as Lord of a different castle(like Bathory was), then flash forward like fifty years, and do a Team up between him and Alucard to finally take Dracula and the undead curse down.

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  7. *snickers* I blame you and your wonderful SG1 crossovers for one I started writing. SG1 meets Trinity Blood where the SG1 find themselves on a world that looks a *lot* like Earth, but about a hundred or two years in the future after a global world war…..

    It got shelved because of more shiny things that came along.

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      1. Gimmie a bit to find it and start polishing the plot and I’ll see what I do in posting it on AO3. *laughs* didn’t really have a plot other than “craziness”.

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      7. ((Okay this is the scene that started it and it’s had *NO* editing FYI)

        The giant circle was spinning again as soldiers filled the courtyard of the Vatican, surrounding the artifact and prepared to defend their world against whatever would come out of it. The black and white figures of the AX were intermingled with the red and silver armored warrior of the Inquisitorial Department. Guns were cocked and ready, held in white gloved hands as swords, maces and blades were shifted in metal-encased hands. Near the center of the front row, directly in front of the circle, Abel stood next to Astha, his gun in his hand as she fidgeted with her spear, the prongs open and ready for an attack or defense should it be required. It was rather ironic in Abel’s mind that normally the only thing that would bring out this many soldiers from the Vatican in one place was a vampiric invasion, yet this time, the Methuselah were on their side.

        The low thrum of a ship’s engines filled the air as a shadow crept over the courtyard, and Abel’s blue eyes flickered up in time to see the Iron Maiden settle over the Vatican with its destructive guns swivelling to aim at the circle.

        Just then, the circle stopped and a burst of blue light filled the center, looking like the surface of a sun-lit pond when someone dropped a large rock in before the light retracted to shimmer on the surface. Tension raced through the crowd as weapons that were held loosely or being fidgeted with were caught up in a sure, firm grip and the sounds of hundreds of guns being primed filled the air. Everyone waited and seconds later, the surface of the blue light shimmered and four figures emerged only to stop at the sight of all the weapons that had come up into a ready position the second they had appeared.

        Slowly, so as not to cause any itchy trigger fingers to twitch, the gray haired man and blond woman placed their long rifles on the ground before straightening up and lacing their hands behind their head in a military gesture of surrender. The dark skinned man with the gold brand on his forehead placed his gold staff on the ground as well before assuming the same stance as the others while the bespeckled man sighed and raised his hands.

        “We mean you no harm. We come in peace,” the bespeckled man announced in Latin, his voice carrying over the courtyard but no one moved.

        “Somehow I don’t think they believed you, Daniel,” muttered the gray haired man in English, his words caught by Abel’s keen ears.

        The blond woman swallowed. “Sir, not to be an alarmist but I thought I saw a red light like a targeting lazer come from that man’s eye,” she murmured, nodding ever so slightly to Tres, standing near Able, both guns held in the battle android’s steady hands.

        Carefully, Abel took a few steps forward, lowering his gun as he cautiously approached them as one would a blood thirsty vampire. “Who are you and what are you doing here?” he demanded in English although his voice didn’t carry the strange accent of the new arrivals.

        “I’m Dr. Daniel Jackson, this is Colonel Jack O’Neil, Major Samantha Carter and Teal’c,” introduced the bespeckled man, his brown hair shifting slightly in the faint breeze. “We’re from Earth, Tauri, and are part of the United States Air Force.”

        “There hasn’t been a United States since it was destroyed during Armageddon,” remarked Brother Petros, approaching from Abel’s left side. “And we would have heard something from them by now if they have had a chance to rebuild enough to contact us again.”

        Surprised looks were traded among the four before the black man raised a brow. “We have not traveled through time,” he remarked in a deep voice even as dark eyes swept over the courtyard before flicking up to the Iron Maiden. “But I believe this might be one of the Lost Worlds.”

        O’Neil sighed and rolled his eyes. “This really isn’t the time to be dropping random bits of information like that, Teal’c,” he griped.

        The blue portal behind them vanished with a soft whoosh and there was a bit more relaxation sweeping through the courtyard, but no one moved from their ready position. Abel gazed at the group, his eyes taking in various details about them. O’Neil had the look of a seasoned veteran but there was a shadow in his eyes of some pain that still lingered. Jackson had the same pain in his eyes but there was a fierce determination, as if he could find whatever he had lost. Carter shifted nervously from foot to foot, her eyes constantly dancing between Abel and O’Neil as if waiting for her commanding officer to give the command.

        But there was something about Teal’c that raised the hairs on the back of Abel’s neck, something that made the Crusnik in him want to tear limb from limb and drink deeply of the blood that flowed under vulnerable skin before snapping the delicate neck. Never before had anyone, vampire, human or Crusnik, made him feel like this and it was a bit off-setting.

        A soft crackle of static in his ear was his only warning as Abel’s communicator sprung to life. “Relieve them of their weapons and bring them into the Main Audience Chamber,” commanded Catarina’s voice. “His Holiness wishes to speak to them himself.”

        “As you wish, Your Eminence,” he replied with a small dip of his head out of habit before Abel holstered his gun. “Sister Esther, Father Wordsworth, and Father de Watteau, they are to be relieved of their weapons before being escorted into the Main Audience Chamber.”

        Sister Esther instantly moved towards Carter while the Professor and Hughes started towards O’Neil and Teal’c while Abel approached Jackson. The bespeckled man seemed nervous but not as jittery as O’Neil as the Professor stripped him of all possible weapons. Abel’s hands were sure and steady as he fell into the old routine of searching a person, slender fingers ghosting over pockets zipped shut but only opening those that had a weapon concealed inside and carefully piling them next to Jackson’s feet. Hughes was just as efficient, his long blond hair falling forward to hide his face as he worked, and the Professor was moving a bit slower but with the same efficiency. Only Sister Esther seemed to be hesitating over some of the items, but a few glances at what was being piled at the feet of each person had her gathering her courage and continuing on.

        Finally, Abel stood up and gestured for the quartet to follow him before he turned to Brother Petros. “Brother Petros, would you and Sister Paula be kind enough to escort us?” he invited, knowing that would be the easy way to keep any arguments or disagreements between the two departments to a minimum.

        With a nod, Petros glanced over to silently summon the Lady of Death, and she walked over with her curved double blades in her hands, the light glinting off the lethal edges and the metallic fabric of her outfit. Thigh high spiked heel boots, long gloves that ended in shoulder pads, and an outfit that looked like a corset with underwear attached all made out of the same metallic fabric that looked like plate mail but was flexible and light enough for anyone to wear. Her short silver hair fell over her right eye and a black belt was slung low on her hips, accenting their sway, and Abel heard a quiet hiss behind him from O’Neil.

        “*That’s* a nun?” he whispered in disbelief only to be silenced by Jackson’s hissed “Jack!”

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      9. ladynero
        Re: Fic bit

        Neat! I’d read it. (Through it does remind me that I did like the few episodes of Trinity Blood I had seen and why didn’t I continue watching that again?)

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      11. Just one thing – it’s “O’Neill” with two “L”s. That’s canon for SG-1 – Jack even references it in the episode “Secrets” (with a snarky comment referencing the movie, where his character was “O’Neil” with one “L”).

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      13. As stated, this hasn’t been edited and that was probably the fault of my spell checker at the time.

        And I have a few Trinity Blood stories I’m working on out at AO3. *grins* I love throwing Abel at people, so I’ve got one started where he ends up with a Woodland King in Middle Earth, and another where he’s helping the Wizarding World prevent another blood war.

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  8. Regarding the the SG1/Magi cross, well one idea I can come up with is to focus heavily on politics and that set in the right season SGC has the ultimate highground. Otherwise the only thing I think of is SG1 is exploring this new planet and comes across a tower.

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  9. This brings up the idea of Magi/Naruto. Jinchuriki meet King? Bijuu meet Djinn?

    Tho that Magi/SW idea also sounds interesting. And while normally the powerlevels don’t make sense for Jedi, there were enough things in the EU for it to be able to be slipped in and not break SoD.

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  10. I had a bunny for a Justice League/Weiss Kreuz cross, but no way to make it work without giving one group a mass Idiot Ball. Might work better if I switched it to MCU/Avengers instead of Justice League, but then I have to figure out the details, such as who’s the better hacker, Omi or Tony+Jarvis? Is it set after the first series for WK? And etc.

    Also had an idea for a Blue Seed/Weiss Kreuz cross due to characters having the same last name, but I think that’s on the Win98 computer I haven’t touched in years.

    One time I dreamed a really messed up Fullmetal Alchemist/Saiyuki/Wedding Peach “movie”, but I have no clue how it ended (or if it did). XD

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    1. Don’t know enough about those to make helpful comments. Definite oof on trying to figure out who’s the best hacker, though! One of the main problems in crossovers is “Thou shalt not sully a main character’s Schtick.” I.E., if a guy’s “the best hacker in the world”, he needs to stay that way. Which makes it difficult if you have overlap.

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  11. I just finished the last DLC for Witcher 3, so now my brain’s stuck on crossover possibilities. Mostly stuff like taking a character or characters from one setting and dumping them in another, and seeing how they adapt, like:

    A rich Gotham widow(er), bereft by their beloved’s murder at the hands of the Joker, puts out a murder contract on the Clown Prince of Crime, which an enterprising Witcher answers.

    The Witchers of the School of the Wolf, gathered at Kaer Morhen for the winter, rescue a scarred firebender left for dead in another world’s polar blizzard.

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  12. I (although not much of a writer) have been tossing up a DA:I and Skyrim crossover, partly as an excuse to use my Argonian headcanons, and partly because shoving my MC into Thedas would be pretty funny. The problem is that I would pretty much be presenting the Fade as a pretty weird part of Oblivion, and I’m not really on top of the weird Morrowind cosmology, on account of brain-breaking. Also, this would need a lot of Thedas lore, and possibly the Dwemer

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  13. My main problem is I get plot bunnies, and I *really, really* want to see the story, but I can’t plot worth beans. I do ideas, I can lay out a plot outline as far as “This needs to happen, want to see that but to do that, that would need to happen,” (Then I start world building and it just, stops. Because building the world is more fun. Also, why do so many of my stories end up needing a detailed/intuitive grasp on people? I have no social skills!)

    Like, I started a SG:A/Buffy crossover that tossed Rodney post Trinity back through time and space to Sunnydale post Harvest. Mostly, I wanted to try and do a fix it fic for Buffy, because plot holes and the Idiot Ball was strong in the latter part of the show. Also, Clone Jack in Sunnydale High. Because Jack as Xander’s uncle was a strong crossover headcanon for me. And it was a way to deal with the feels, and sucker punch Sheppard. Because yes, Rodney destroyed 5/6 of a solar system. Sam Carter did too, this is a thing for SGC. And John Sheppard woke up the Wraith. Keep things in perspective, all the genii of Atlantis did accidental horrors.

    Rant ending now.

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  14. Since many of the comments have gone off into ‘my evil plot bunny is…’ I think I’ll share a few of mine with the class:

    The first one I blame on You, crossovercreativechaos. I found your fanfiction account – your works and several of your favs – around the same time I started to become really interested in the New World of Darkness. Then I read Blades of Blood (though I was more inspired by Witchy Woman honestly) and Ellen Brand’s Outside Looking In. Cue several years of recurrent and extensive plot bunnys dedicated to a Massive Multiplayer Crossover of anything and everything I can possibly figure out how to translate into the common setting of New World of Darkness. I started with Danny Phantom as a Sin-Eater, then the cast of Detective Conan/Magic Kaitou, then Devil May Cry, then Dresden Files… so on, so forth. I have pages of notes and absolutely no time. I even have notes on multiple creature types for some characters (is Yugi a Mummy or a Sin-Eater? Bakura could be either of those or an alternate weakness Mekhet Vampire). Literally none of this is helped by the nWoD encouraging this sort of thing: pick up a main nWoD core book sometime, it has an illustrated section where it narrates a scenario to demonstrate how some of the game rules work – a P.I. gets jumped by someone waiting in his office then the attacker flees the scene while the P.I. persues. The problem? Taking into account the different art style the P.I. looks like an aged-up Yuseke Urameshi from Yu Yu Hakusho. Then there’s the Japanese highschool student named Shuichi possessed by the fox-spirit Kurama mentioned in Skinchangers; and the Conspiracy picture for the Hunters of the Aegis Kai Doru is just Dante off the cover of DMC 3.

    The other evil bunny I have is actual more an unfortunate category of evil bunnies: I get inspired by fan fic I read.
    I found the ultimate Magical Girl super crossover of Battle Phantasia exactly a year after the writing group died, but the scene I imagined where Danny Phantom qualifies and introduces himself will not leave my brain.

    Or how Log Horizon and Sword Art Online are forever linked in my head, and so after reading Change of Fate all I could imagine was young idealistic Imperial Officer and genius tactician Shiroe finding something suspicious about this group ‘the Flying Thantas’ and investigating them. They keep leading him to criminal syndicates or corrupt Imperials though (because there’s no way Kirito or any of his friends can stay out of trouble, and besides, they’ve gotta recruit Sinon somewhere), so he’s aided by his old war buddy the mercenary Zabrak named Naotsugu. And with all Shiroe’s success and skill he gets the Inquisitor/Intelligence operative Akatsuki assigned to himself. Tracking the circus and various escaped Jedi while slowly being shown how irredeemably corrupt the Empire actually is and switching sides. For bonus points bunnies insist Shiroe is Force Sensitive and that his skill as an officer brings him to Vader’s attention. And Vader Notices the Sensitivity… riiight before the attempted defection.

    Or how my brain insists Shadows in Starlight and Fialleril’s Double Agent Vader AU are mutually compatible AUs.

    In short all my plot bunnies are evil, as is my brain.

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  15. For the Shiroe one my next thought is that he gets taken by Vader for breaking via torture before being trained – as some materials imply was done to create the Emperor’s Red Guards and certain other Imperial assets. Naotsugu and Akatsuki manage to get away though and go for help from the only place they think will provide it: the Thantas. Cue rescue efforts of the two groups combined before noping out of the facility Shiroe’s being held in because Vader’s ON SITEOHGEEZE!

    After that my brain stops knowing where to go and starts throwing out ideas about wandering into the Unknown Regions and getting too close to a black hole with its time dilation problems. By the time they wander back out into Known Space they only think it’s been a few months but they’re post-A New Hope (and possibly in the same universe as Double Agent Vader and Shadows in Starlight because if my bunnies see two things that are even slightly related then CLEARLY THEY HAVE TO GO TOGETHER). At this point it’s usually two hours before I have to wake up and go to work and I’m sobbing and wondering why the bunnies won’t let me just sleep when I have no time and shouldn’t be writing fan fic of fan fic anyways.

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      1. I always feel: sci-fi setting with aliens? Why would I limit my protagonists to humans? And what little I remembered from the very brief Star Wars d20 game I participated in: Zabraks were hardy with an excellent endurance due to cultural attitudes encouraging toughness and initially coming from a barren desert world. Endurance, durability, and survival training/experience? Sounds like a good choice for tank who’s secondary was frontier scout.

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    2. Oh, yes, The Bunnies Won’t Let Me Sleep. It Bites. (Unfortunately, so do they, and then you get into a nasty biting war that makes sleep even harder to obtain!)

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  16. There is one bunny that I have been thinking about for months. It’s actually inspired by a few posts on the forum for Fate Revelation Online by daniel-gudman (great fic). The basic idea was of how the SAO survivors adapt, or not, back into mainstream Japanese culture.

    One point I saw and have been pondering is about the younger kids not in Sasha’s care. If they were not in Sasha’s care then maybe some older player(s) watched periodically. In other words you have all these kids who have been practically raising themselves for the past two years with little to no supervision. Everyone is freed and now these incredibly independent groups of children are running around. The government and all the adults around them are trying to reintegrate them but these kids spent two years raising themselves in a place where death is one misstep away. They might listen if a known Clearer tells them what to do. Other than that, no way.

    Another thing I saw discussed and have been thinking about ever since was the church itself. As far as I understand it, the kids were pretty much treated like orphans and were most likely called that too. The game ends and now you have these how many young children who have been identifying as orphans for the past two years being reunited with there family.

    The SAO Survivor School is worth a thought too. As far as I know there is only one. SAO was released nationally. Is it a boarding school then? Are a bunch of these underage kids being forced to move to Tokyo after less than a half a year with their families and friends. * Culture Notes: Japan considers 20 years to be the age of adulthood; Teenagers are older kids not young adults; School year starts in April with SAO ending November 7.*

    Sasha’s fate is also interesting to think about. What ever happened to her? On the Wiki it says she is a uni student. If she was in childcare how would her experience in SAO effect her education. If she wasn’t would she switch and again how would SAO effect this. She was raising an unknown number of traumatised kids for years.

    Japanese society’s view of the survivors has poked at me before too. There is major stigma against mental illness and a ‘nail down the one that sticks up’ mentality. The Japanese Self Defense Force (the closest Japan can have to an army) is disliked amongst their own people. SAO’s ending has freed thousands of lethally-trained warriors. The campaign against the red players means that many of the most experienced also have human blood on their hands.

    Last thought, in the original webnovel apparently the number of players was 50 000.

    That is all the bunnies related to this topic I can come up with right now. Yeah. In summary, the reintegration definitely didn’t go as smoothly as the limited amount that was shown.

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    2. *sighs* It is one of the depressing things about SAO canon that we really don’t get to see much of the fallout or problems of reintegration.

      It’s also kind of a sad commentary to think that many of the surviving kids in Change of Fate are possibly better off under the care of the Jedi and Sasha amongst the Thantas and On The Run than they are in canon.

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      2. Oh, I don’t blame him! Just… that sort of ‘oh what could have been’ thought. You know how it goes. And politics! I can’t imagine how difficult they must be to write. They do come up fairly often in tabletops I run, but usually I deal with it by leaning on my friends via discussion and spooling implications. Even then, other than general results I leave it vague.

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      3. I’m pretty much convinced that Shinon’s problems stem from her mother’s treatment, which I see as child abuse.

        I read more James Hogan, because Kawahara mentioned one of his books in particular. (It is the second one Baen has republish in Cyber-Rogues, I want to say Realtime Interrupt.) After that, Kawahara’s descriptions of America and Americans really seemed to lean on Hogan. Though maybe I’m just imagining things after bouncing off Moon Flower.

        The thing that bugs me the most about SAO might be Kikuouka’s justification for the soul xerox program. I do not at all find it persuasive, being sentimentally inclined towards the Bacon quote.

        “Walled towns, stored arsenals and armories, goodly races of horse, chariots of war, elephants, ordnance, artillery, and the like; all this is but a sheep in a lion’s skin, except the breed and disposition of the people, be stout and warlike.” Francis Bacon, Of the True Greatness of Kingdoms and Estates

        Ah well, when I think too hard, I conclude that the post-Aincrad arc is mainly from not cleaning up well after Aincrad, and that a bunch of people were negligent to the point of being accomplices to that mess.

        Speaking of Change. Can you say what Kayaba’s actual reason for going to all that trouble was? Because that seems secret force master level of effort, and lulz doesn’t entirely satisfy. The number of units sold seem low for gaming, especially considering Corellia should have a greater population than Japan. Was it to target probable latent force users? Or to slide under the threshold of the Emperor’s attention? Early on, they strip the memory cards from headsets. I don’t see any mention of these being destroyed, or policed up, so shouldn’t some slip into the Emperor’s hands? Speaking of which, what about the hardware ORO was running on? The factories which built the headsets? I assume the ‘missing’ chapter nine is simply an editing issue. (s/10365222/10/ is Chapter 10: Epilogue, and s/10365222/9/ is Chapter 8.)

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      4. There was a Prologue, then 8 chapters, then an Epilogue; possibly I didn’t get “chapter 10” off the label on FF.net.

        Kayaba’s reason was, pretty much, to prove he could do it. And yes, he was targeting latent Force users.

        A lot of the memory cards went up with the Temple. Some would be with survivors, who are either bolting off-planet or hiding like nobody’s business. Also, this is Corellia. It’s canon that the Empire’s grip on Corellia was always… iffy. 🙂

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      5. I did read a fic once that highlighted the mentality/ cultural difference between ALO players and SAO survivors. I can’t remember it that well though. One character was an SAO survivor. He was a blacksmith and ran a shop. Another was a regular ALO player. The SAO guy found the other too rude and demanding. The ALO guy found the shopkeeper’s weird (for in game) manners and way of interacting with others.

        These types of culture clashes interest me. The SAO survivors pretty much created an unique culture in just two years. If I understand correctly the RL taboo was developed and spread within just a few month to every single person. The lack of customs probably helped in this aspect. In Log Horizon there were already powerful, well-established, and known groups. There is also a 20 year old community involved. SAO had 1000 beta testers that were loosely connected when the Death Game started.

        The clashes of SAO survivors between the very casual MMO community along with friction from the more polite mainstream Japanese culture would definitely create some interesting scenarios. This part came out wrong.

        As for politics, yeah, no. I can barely understand the people around me. A lot of social cues and taboos fly completely over my head.
        Social communication disorder is frustrating.

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    3. That reminds me that one of my standard ideas is integrating SAO’s survivor school with Akira Miyashita’s Otokojuku. (Three different comedy series, I think all published by Shonen Jump. First one published during the eighties, IIRC when Hokuto no Ken and JoJo were in Shonen Jump.)

      Heihachi Edajima is an invincible WWII veteran who is so heavily invested in education that in his catch phrase he only describes himself as ‘Edajima Heihachi, Principle of Otokojuku’. Standard jokes include the brutal conditions and inhumane traditions of Otokojuku, works of the dubious Minmei publishing company, the off the wall gimmicks of the ‘life and death battles between men’, defeat means friendship extending to middle aged men transferring to a highschool, the teachers, and cheerfully disregarding continuity for death and maiming.

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  17. Actually responding to post topic: while I don’t fully know how to help for all of the Magi/Star Wars problems I do have a few ideas (entirely because praise for my Change of Fate/Log Horizon idea has been adding fuel to my flames).

    First is an edit to existing canon: the expiriments Sidious’ master conducted that eventually led to Anakin were not his own idea. Instead they were based off ancient Sith holocrons dating back to the Sith Empire. The idea was to warp the Force in such a way not to just create life but to create a permanent spirit that could exist within the Force while still using it to interact with the world. Basically a sentient who’s connection with the Force was as far beyond other Jedi/Sith as most Sensitives are beyond Galactic average. The end goal of the project would have been about transforming the Sith into such beings but proof of concept that it was even possible would be required. That’s where Magi come from.

    Of course, you don’t start with tests on people you care about, even for an Empire of Evil jerks, you start with tests on animals and move up. The Sith Empire were canonically slavers. Their initial expiriments were on human slaves. This is where you can probably get David and Solomon.

    As for proper King’s, not just King Candidates? (And I’m going off the difference you laid out in What Comes Around between the two) They’re particularly strong Sensitives with an additional talent, something taken a bit from the EU and a bit from your Shadows In Starlight – they can Force Bond with communities. Like Obi-Wan or Kenshin in SiS, the Bonds are surprisingly quick and strong, practically reflexive; and like some EU materials state about Palpatine they can be used to share certain powers – like oh, say… Battle Meditation (or Force Rage for a darker twist) through the entire network. Going with this, frighteningly Palpatine would be a King who had truly embraced the Dark Side.

    Interestingly this also separates people who are just extremely powerful in the Force (Anakin, Magi, Yoda, Luke) from Kings and potentially from King Candidates.

    As for translating the Rukh’s tendency to throw problems that need solving at Kings? Frankly almost no effort is required to translate the Great Flow of the Rukh into the Force, and – hilariously similarly – in Star Wars canon the universe already tends to throw problems that need solving at Force Sensitives.

    This has further potential hilarity in that Anakin would be an imperfect Magi in this setting, but he still selected Obi-Wan as his King Candidate.

    Anyways for how Aladdin is still alive when these events well predate the KotOR games: the canon’s again work together easily enough, his body was kept in suspended animation via Healing Trance while his bodiless Force Ghost existed within the Force itself, carefully gaurded and raised by Ugo.

    I had a couple other ideas I’m struggling to remember right now – they’ll probably come back to me later – but Sinbad should totally be a Zeltran (to explain that hair!) with a preternatural connection almost solely to the Living Force, explain some of his ‘Read the Flow of the Universe’ tricks.

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    1. Zeltrons: Skin from white to red, hair all kinds of colors including, yes, purple, aversion to labor, low-level empathy with everyone nearby (meaning they often want to make other people happy ’cause it literally makes them feel better!)

      …Yes. Yes, I could see Sinbad as one of those. *Amused*

      And now the bunnies wonder what Ja’far might be. They seem to be leaning toward either Arkanian, or Firrerreo.
      http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Arkanian
      http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Firrerreo
      Thoughts? Other suggestions?

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      2. Huh. Reading the canon (now Legends, pfui) on Firrerreo, I think they fit better with Fanalis.

        And I fear my bunnies put their foot down when it’s a marginally SF setting and say “no mixing humans and nonhumans without genetic engineering involved”.

        Liann, now… that might fit Sharrkan….

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      5. I was wondering for Ja’far but wasn’t getting any ideas. I suspect Yamraiha is a Twi’lek, Drakon could be Wookie or… what are they called, big angry lizard race that really doesn’t get along with Wookies?
        As for others…hmm. I like Arkanian for Ja’far more than Firrerreo. Especially because after reading the race page for Firrerreos I can’t help but imagine ALL the Fanalis characters are Firrerreos – especially during or post-Empire era, what with the selling off of Firrerreo children as slaves and destruction of their homeworld.
        …I really wish I’d read the Adventures of Sinbad manga, I don’t know the extended generals very well…

        Still, if Arkanian doesn’t (or does) work for Ja’far it’ll sure work for Sharrkan. And Zabrak and Mandalorian both work for…. wossname… big guy, blue hair, married? Drat, wish I could remember.

        For non-8 Generals characters, building off your idea mentioned in What Comes Around that Alibaba is a mutt or Chimaera I’d say having him be a genetic nightmare of a mish-mash of near-human races would fit the bill nicely. His mon was probably a similar mix, while his dad was probably a distinct half-and-half mix of Human and something else (hilariously Arkanian is once again quite fitting with their powerful corporations and historical interest as traders. Maybe Rashid was a Arkanian-Corellian mix?)

        And purely for continuity in-jokes I will argue till I am blue in the face that Aladdin is Human.

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      6. You couldn’t see Yamraiha as a Dathomiri Witch? 😉 And the lizard race that’s cranky about Wookies is the Trandoshan, if I recall.

        Ja’far as an Arkanian Offshoot (those creepy Sham Lash) might work well, and I agree on Fanalis as Firrerreo.

        Hinahoho as a Zabrak or Mandalorian? Hmm, something to consider if I can’t find a good ice-planet race!

        *Cackles* Yep, Aladdin as human works for me.

        As for Alibaba – bunnies are honestly torn. On the one hand they could see Corellian. OTOH, mutt definitely fits him – and Arkanian-Human mixes are (Legends now, argh) canon, so that could definitely be Rashid’s side. As for his mother Anis’ side, and to give a potentially interesting group for Cassim et. al… I just recently ran across the Balosar.

        http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Balosar_(species)/Legends

        Yeah. One of the guys who tried to sell Obi-Wan deathsticks. *G* Might just fit….

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      7. Corellian and Arkanian hybrid works for Rashid . . . maybe his wife, the mother of Alibaba’s half brothers is full Arkanian? Culturally, that would explain why the elder especially of that pair kept ignoring Alibaba’s advice . . .

        Big blue-haired married dude is Hinahoho . . .

        The character’s names might have tweaked in order to fit with whatever species and culture they wind up as but they had to be changed to work in Around so it’ll be okay. 🙂

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    2. Maybe Kings in general have a marked tendency toward the Living Force? Sinbad’s is particularly prominent but all of them have it – which would put them at odds with much of the Jedi Order since they seem to select for the Unifying Force connections (I’d bet good money that most of the people who washed out or left the Order were Living Force dominant).

      And I like the potential for a maybe happier lives for our characters if someone can get to Anakin and Obi-Wan while both are still young enough to be taught what they are AND Palpatine gets his claws in too deep with Anakin. Because even an imperfect (partial?) Magi is not something you want to leave in the hands of someone out to rule the universe . . . Maybe it wouldn’t work out that way but it’s a chance. Which is always better than nothing.

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      1. Honestly the overlap between Anakin and Judar with this theory is a little disturbing.

        And to be fair to the Jedi Order I suspect large organizations in general probably accidentally select for Unifying Force instead of Living Force connections. The bigger an organization the less it tends to enjoy chaos and more it prefers everyone play the role of cog in the machine; and the older an organization the more dogmatic, which has much the same affect.

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      3. sightlessradiation
        Re: Jedi Order

        Yeah, I don’t think the preference toward Unifying Force dominance was intentional but rather subconscious for the exact reasons you mentioned . . . and probably why they have been stagnating for a while. Through I won’t discount sabotage like was suggested in some of Vathara’s stories . . .

        I do question that there are so few alternate forms of Force users in the Galaxy. Prominently we seem to have the Jedi and the Sith . . . and a very scattered other groups. Just saying that just because some people left the Order or washed out by thirteen doesn’t mean they all suddenly decided to ignore all of that training they had been given . . . or all those that did fell to the Dark Side. None of that you’re either a Jedi or a Sith, only Siths are supposed to deal in absolutes (which an absolute itself, Obi-Wan might be irony-blind . . .)

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      5. If I were an evil madman in a multigenerational ideological civil war, and people believed I was dead, and I had active concealment on top of that, I would quietly pick off the small groups of neutrals whose disappearance I could hide.

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      7. To: Shiori_Makiba
        Re: Jedi Order

        I’d always gotten the impression that there were a few scattered other groups and philosophies of Force Users, but most tended to be tied to very planetary cultures. Sort of like how a religion expressing itself might vary in how from country to country. Some things were supposed to be Universal Truths – like the Light and Dark sides for example – but often everything was up for local interpretation.

        The Jedi and Sith just ended up as the two most powerful blocs on a Galactic scale, and not surprisingly very oppesed given very different view points and a natural division for Force Sensitives along Light v. Dark. Probably during their heydays of war they both swallowed up several smaller groups and philosophies that were more aligned with thenselves than their opposition. Combine this with the Sith being evil jerk-bags and the Jedi being historically problematically dogmatic and occasionally paranoid and it was also my impression that both sides did their best to enact… purges of divirgent philosophies.

        Some of this even gets a very bried reference in Change of Fate when it talks about the differences between Corellian Jedi and the Jedi Order, and how the Council long ago banned of Force katas because of similarities to Sith Spells… yeah. That’s from canon EU, near as I can tell, and even the language carries a few nasty implications for the extended history of the setting.

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    3. As another idea for this I had earlier but forgot: Household vessels.

      I haven’t yet followed the links you posted above on how you’re thinking about working Djinn and Dark Djinn, but this idea builds more off of my suggestion as to what kings are.

      Basically Household vessels would be… something. Maybe it’s cybernetic, maybic it’s genetic, maybe it’s just a really interesting Force focusing crystal like you find in Lightsabers, but bigger. A lot bigger. What’s more important is what it does. It takes the Force Bond between the Household member and their King, and taps it. Drawing on the Force itself and the King’s connection to the Force it amplifies the Household member’s own Force Sensitivity.

      This probably doesn’t let said member manifest any of the more out there Jedi mental tricks – like post-cognition, remote viewing, or telepathy – and it’d only increase reflexes a little bit, not actually to the level of a trained Jedi of their species, just a bit above what their reflexes were. But that can easily be quite scary on its own. For the unique powers granted by Household Vessels, probably each Vessel grants access to a single Force power that’s about either manipulating the body’s physical limits (maybe Drakon’s was Force Rage, for example), or something in the world around them (Morgiana’s probably manifest pyromancy, which doesn’t show up much in Star Wars but I think is mentioned here and there).

      This also neatly explains why Wizard characters from Magi Don’t take Household Vessels. Give one of those to Sensitive already strong enough to affect the world through the Force and suddenly they have to balance tapping both their King’s connection to the Force and their own connection. Nevermind the havoc that would be having essentially two different connections to the Force.

      This also helps with power balancing the two universes a little bit.

      Oh and further race thoughts: I forgot to mention that the Society & Culture sections for Arkanians reminded me of the Kouen Family and the Kou Empire. Yamraiha would also be good as either a Dathomir Witch or a Nabooian human. Sharrkan could be fun as a Coruscanti human who hated the political culture he came from. And… what’s her name… head of Al-Thaman, Magi of Solomon, Hakuryuu’s mom… ARBA! Arba would be a bodyriding Magi Force Ghost loyal to the original doctrines of the Sith… and possibly leader of the extensive undercover Sith Cult of Al-Thamen… and maybe was the one to bring that Sith Holocron on Magi to the attention of Palpatine’s master.

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    4. I just realized I talked about Kings without mentioning King Candidates and brought up the Kouens as Arkanians without having mentioned my first guess for them.

      On King Candidates: Force Sensitives (maybe) who succeeded in finding dungeon equivalent, passing the trials, and earning a Djinn. I say ‘maybe’ on Force Sensitive thing because canon is – aside from Yuzhan Vong (such Villain Sues and went on for way too long. Which is a shame because I Love the aesthetics and possibilities of organic technology) that everyone is connected to the Force on some level – as everyone has Magoi and is a part of the Great Flow – having a Djinn just binds you to an extremely powerful entity that exists purely as a Force Spirit… or whatever you wanted to go with (I may still not have followed your above links *is shamefaced*).

      Household Vessels work along Force Bonds without requiring the ‘easy Bond’ abilities of True Kings because people who are not sensitive can still emotionally and empathically bond to others in a way that leaves an impression on the Force without it being the strength of a formally recognized ‘Force Bond’; in King Candidates the Djinn – as a powerful font of the Force – just takes care of the difference by tapping that same connection to power Household Vessels.

      And while an aggressive Arkanian corporation run by the Kouens works for them, my very first thought was highly placed and powerful Imperial Loyalists. Or at the very least Imperial Allies. Due to Imperial racism, this would mean the Kouens were most likely Human, probably even Coruscanti or an old and particularly militant Alderaanian colony/splinter faction.

      The Empire is way too close to what the Kouens were trying to build to not resonate well with them. The one question is how badly they needed to be the ones in charge of it.

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      2. King Candidates, especially the Rens if they are highly placed in the Empire and NOT members of Inquisitors, will have a connection to the Force well below Jedi / Sith training threshold. Low enough that most and they probably wouldn’t consider themselves to be Force Sensitive. Because otherwise the Emperor would have had them killed.

        The Djinn can make it work with a connection that low because even a low connection to the Force is still a connection but it’s probably much, much harder. Or maybe the Candidate can access their Djinn’s power but have more difficulty “hearing” them.

        Proper Kings are more sensitive, let’s either on the edge and sometimes into the training threshold but let’s say part of what makes them Kings Proper rather your standard Force Sensitive who is Living Force dominant is their sensitivity can go into a silent mode where it’s very difficult to detect or the King is very hard to detect. And / or just projects a field of “It isn’t the Force Sensitive you are looking for – move along” in response to threats to the King.

        Or something. There needs to be some explanation for just how Sinbad, Alibaba, Kouha, and Hakuryuu managed to avoid detection by either the Jedi Order or the Emperor. Sinbad and Alibaba could have been born and lived in the middle of nowhere. Or on planets with people willing to fudge the test results to protect them. But that won’t work for Kouha and Hakuryuu. Unless that’s part of the Ren’s motivation to take the whole thing over.

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      3. Some of this depends on when in the timeline things happen. If Sinbad and Alibaba were just born someplace the equivalent of ‘out in the boonies’ or in slums – which isn’t too far from canon for Alibaba, though I don’t know about Sinbad – then they could have easily slipped under the net. This is especially the case post Revenge of the Sith where the Emperor basically made all knowledge of Jedi, the Force, and how it all worked both taboo and military secrets – pretty sure that’s canon, and that’s the only way I can see the difference between prequels and A New Hope even slightly working.

        Even before then however Force Sensitives were slipping under the wire all the time. The galaxy was just too big a place. Nevermind the handful of species where all members were Force Sensitive (supposedly Mace Windu came from a planet where all of that planet’s native Human populous were Force Sensitive, but my source for that is dubious canon at best). That’s before getting into systems with their own local rules for Sensitives – I’m looking at you, Corellia – and the fact that the primary and easiest test was the midichlorian test which could totally be fooled (it’s mentioned that pain killers can reduce midichlorian counts, and if a mom is having a particularly rough time giving birth painkillers are totally administered in our world. Given an injection at the right time will get to the kid too and that the midichlorian test probably was a standard part of the battery of blood and dna tests medical facilities run on newborns shortly after birth unless the parents say otherwise… well.)

        Additionally if the Kouens are a highly placed aristocrat family then they can afford to buy their safety from the Emperor, especially if they’re valuable political allies – the Emperor was a powerful dictator, but part of succeeding in that role is knowing when to fold ’em and there were power blocs even he had to listen to on occasion. And if set before Revenge of the Sith the the Kouens could have just told the Jedi Order ‘no, shove off.’ Long as the kid’s legal guardian was the one saying it, then the Jedi would have to respect that, even if they wanted to keep an eye on the family in question.

        Long and short, a ‘stealth mode’ isn’t required. Luke and Anakin were both immensely strong in the Force – Anakin especially – and Vader didn’t even notice Luke until he started to really go all out in the Death Star trench run. Qui-gon may have been suspicious, but needed the midichlorian test to be sure in Anakin’s case.

        None of this precludes Inquisitor Kouhas, by the way. I actually kind of like that idea in all it’s terrifying glory.

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      4. I haven’t actually determined when would be the best place in the timeline to put it. During the Empire/around the time of Rebels might be interesting, but it kind of intrudes on Kanan’s “one of very few semi-active Jedi” schtick. Never mess with another character’s schtick!

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      5. Ah but that’s part of the key here, isn’t it? The Kings are Force Sensitive, but are they necessarily Jedi? Or do they jusst have local traditions, what their Djinn/Magi have taught them, and whatever they’ve managed to instinctively pick up? Hell, Alibaba is exactly the type to have no idea he’s even Force Sensitive (especially if he’s on the very low end of the threshold, which would fit with canon Magi where he had a fairly low Magoi capacity).

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      8. Re: Hiding

        Valid points.

        In canon, Sinbad grew up in a small village. Not quite the middle of nowhere – it seemed to be reasonable traveling distance from a port, could receive individual conscription notices, and when soldiers came to collect Sinbad after he ignored said notices a few times they seem to have no trouble locating the village – but far enough out of the way and unimportant enough that Sinbad got away with ignoring said notice until Drakon was put in charge of the next dungeon crawl and noticed that he was a conscript short and decided to collect him / make him aware that this would not be tolerated any more (boy, did that decision come back to bite him in the behind). Just thinking that if his village wasn’t out of the way, he won’t have been able to do that as easily.

        Alibaba, I’m not sure if he was born in the slums because we don’t know when his mother left from her palace job. Did she leave as soon as she figured out she was pregnant or after Alibaba was born but too young to remember? If the former, how did Rashid even know about Alibaba? Do Mom stay in regular contact with him? Or did he simply had people keep an eye on them for one reason or another? (Maybe he had good intentions for that but the agents misinterpreted his orders or listened to someone else in the palace like the Queen . . .)? So many questions . . .

        Either way, those two probably work with being born somewhere out of the way, galactically speaking. Or their mothers had pain-killers that knocked down the babies Force-germs count (you think if they know that can happen that they would test the baby after stuff like that was OUT of their system).

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      9. I’d really, really like to know when Anis had to leave the palace, and what Rashid knew when she did. If something I heard about Sinbad no Bouken is correct, Rashid was already looking for Alibaba when he was about five.

        …I ran across some fanarts of Merchant Sinbad with a very young Prince Alibaba and Rashid, and that would have been so cool. Wish the Sinbad manga were out in English translation!

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    1. Pretty sure you’re right and that’s Pisti, but I’ve already demonstrated a distinct lack of knowledge and specificity when it comes to the 8 Generals.

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      1. Hows about cloud ships? I thought I spotted one of those while scrolling down the page one the Hapens.

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  19. @Satoyama
    Re: Disappearance

    Very plausible and likely accounts for the majority of them. . . but it’s a big galaxy. And surely, the Sith aren’t the only ones capable of hiding themselves in it . . .

    Also since I assume Jedi and Sith techniques did not spring forth fully formed just one random day, that means they had had to be developed . . . and what can be done once can be done again.

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    1. Old canon could be interpreted as suggesting that independent discoveries of the force were few, and that most traditions took substantial time to develop to the height of their power.

      If someone had figured out how to hide for thousands of years, why would they stop?

      That said, Planetary Romance means never running out of hills concealing hordes of barbarian alien raiders.

      Back in the day, Change and Starlight seemed to fit, and I wondered why not do a third property with traces of Tholme, Corellian Jedi, Humbarine and Mandalorians? Of the ones I knew Vathara followed, the only one I found a way to make fit was Gundam. As usual, I couldn’t find a plot, much less one I was capable of executing.

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      2. There’s apparently a supplemental material for Turn A that claims that they are all in the same system and timeline. Obviously this can’t apply to my favorite, Build Fighters, but it is fairly plausible if you assume it happens over tens of thousands of years, and there are many regimes that tried the year zero thing.

        All this happens in one system, so it is fairly portable if you can make the tech and mysticism work. Obvious answer seemed to be some alien alien gas giant creatures with an independent dark side tradition. The aliens supply the tech, erase the history, and keep things isolated. Black history is a ritual which loops from Universal Century to Correct Century and back. Key figures are stored spiritually, and imprinted into bodies again when their time comes. (I wanted all the Gundam cast and toys, I wanted Bastila and good Revan, and I wanted the same time period as Change and Starlight.)

        Flying war droids with giant light sabers and I haven’t worked out any good material. Yet. My old process would note the Ars Goetia in Iron Blooded Orphans, and further cross them over with other such series like Magi and DxD.

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  20. And I fear my bunnies put their foot down when it’s a marginally SF setting and say “no mixing humans and nonhumans without genetic engineering involved”.

    A sensible rule . . .

    Maybe the system our heroes hail from was originally colonized by genetic experiments fleeing and/or had such a small starting population and were isolated enough for a long time and used genetic engineering to sure they didn’t lose good gene combos just the parents might not be the same species . . . or it started off strictly Human with Human, etc, but the tech was available and everyone uses it anyway so eventually there was intermixing . . . or the intermixing happened because even with the best gene manipulation technology, eventually your population needs new D.N.A.

    Or like the Yamato Isles, this planet is tremendously lethal and mixed children tended to survive longer.

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    1. Fortunately in most of our discussed cases it’s actually within canon those mixes are possible. Star Wars Legends lists several races as ‘near-human’ so genetically distinct, but still capable of interbreeding. Wookies and Trandoshans aren’t, and Twi’lek were never stated one way or another, but Zabrak are and apparently there’s mention somewhere in canon of Zabrak-Twi’lek hybrids. This is more amusing/worrying when you remember that no one knows where humans originally came from (Tatooine, Coruscant, Naboo, Corellian, and Alderaanian humans are actually all genetically distinct ethnicities, and all have been suggested as human home worlds in canon) but records do show they were commonly slaves in the Soth Empire and even before that, and that the Sith did a lot of genetoc tampering before their collapse. There’s even a good chance they weren’t the first species to do that.

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      1. *Nod* Balosars are at least listed as Near-Human, even if we don’t have info on crosses… and the picture on Wookiepedia of a lady Balosar just struck me as fitting into the Balbadd slums’ canon style of dress. *Wry G* Plus it’s also canon that members of that race have beat feet to other planets to get out of the mess, so if Balbadd were a planet based on trade, like Corellia, could be a lot of mixes there!

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      1. I was actually thinking on this (once I finally got around to looking up Cathars). I can totally see why Shiori_Makiba would want them crossbred with Mandalorians as Fanalis equivalents, what with clan and warrior cultures and feline tendencies. Especially since the Cathars visually remind me of the image we see of Fanalis that have shed Human form and crossed the Rift.

        But they are distinctly not near-human. And Firrerreo canon fits the Fanalis situation so well (tendency to growl when pissed, crazy durable with occasional bursts of strength, and the whole species mostly now found as slaves thing). So I thought about it and had an idea:
        Firrerreos Are Cathar.

        ‘Wait!’ You cry, ‘that makes no sense!’

        ‘Ah, but let me explain…’ I counter.

        Firrerreos are near-human. This means that they either came about through natural mutation or – more likely – genetic tampering. And who keeps slaves, expiraments on those slaves, and are canonically listed as attacking the Cathar homeworld and kidnapping it’s people to serve as slaves? Why the Sith Empire did all of those things! And what sure would be convenient (especially for monsters who treat people like objects)? Why stronger and tougher slaves, customized for physically taxing duties, like hard labor or gladiatorial matches.

        The Cathar are all of these things – and relatively few of them are left after the mass slaughter that was their homeworld being conquered. Still, humans are listed as the single most common race in the Galaxy, because we multiply like nobody’s business.

        If a particularly enterprising Sith saw this and decided one problem solved the other, they may have used Cathar dna to create the first Firrerreos. The plan has an extra bit of efficiency because using the quickly multiplying Humans the scientist could create relatively few Firrerreo and then just introduce those into the gene pool. Of course, the modifications might thin out as successive generations breed with unmodified Humans, so probably the initial batch were more heavily modified than either modern Firrerreo or the intended end product. This leads to the fun of modern Firrerreo occasionally getting a Half-Alv like surprise throwback of recessive genes to thiese initial ancestors. Those could be the faster and stronger Fanalis. This even can be used to account for no Fanalis Wizards/Force Sensitives when Firrerreo can be Force Sensitive: the lead designer for the project tried to genetically minimize the chances of Force Sensitivity in subjects. After all, why give that much power to slaves, especially when the Sith took so much pride in their own connection to the Dark Side of the Force.

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      4. Also as a further thought (because you’re right, that is way complicated for a background detail that amounts to ‘Fanalis in Star Wars’) you could – if you Want to involve the Cathars with the Firrerreo in Fanalis backgrounds – ignore the bit about throwbacks and just flat state that for your setting the dna used to modify Humans into Firrerreo was Cathar dna. Might not even come up in story or be at all important. Though I may be reflexively thinking of it as a personal head-canon from now on.

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      5. Yeah, I can see how that could get very complicated . . . .

        So it’s pick one that has the closest match in terms of culture, abilities, and appearance we are looking for

        OR

        Make one up

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      7. On Fanalis as Firrerreo, I was thinking on how Morgiana has rarely been shy about taking pride in her abilities, and the biggest distinction between Humans and Firrerreo was what sounded like an almost Wolverine-esque healing factor. Cue scenarios where Morgiana intentionally jumps into the line of fire between Alibaba and blasters because, hey, if it doesn’t kill her she’ll be fine in a few minutes.
        Please someone tell me this isn’t as likely a scenario as I’m afraid it is.

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  21. Re: Morgiana versus Blasters

    I hope not too.

    Because I already hear Alibaba’s immediate reaction to the idea. “No, no, no, no . . .” in every language he knows – and being some kind of traveler for a least part of his life and/or growing in a port and/or growing up in a place that lives and dies by trade, I bet he knows at least that word in several.

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  22. I’d really, really like to know when Anis had to leave the palace, and what Rashid knew when she did.

    Not to mention why. Anis had to know just how dangerous the streets were – she must have had a very good reason to go back there, especially with a baby or very young child in tow.

    I’m think there were threats. Not made by Rashid but someone in the palace. The dark and suspicious part of my mind thinks that the straw that broke the camel’s back was an actual attempt at murder. Not of Anis but her son. That’d be a very good reason to run and do her best to hide him.

    Of course, why was she being threatened is a question since as the third son, in theory, Alibaba is pretty far away from the throne. My bunnies are kicking around the idea that in Balbadd being illegitimate, doesn’t strictly speaking, matter. As long as Rashid acknowledges Alibaba as his son he has the same rights as his two half-brothers. And that Rashid can name any of his children heir and successor – they don’t have absolute primogenitor laws. Both of which would make him a more credible threat in some people’s eyes.

    If something I heard about Sinbad no Bouken is correct, Rashid was already looking for Alibaba when he was about five.

    If it isn’t true, I might have to write a fic making it so.

    Merchant Sinbad with a very young Prince Alibaba and Rashid

    But I also want to write one so I can include that. Because that would be so awesome.

    My bunnies are ignoring Ja’far’s evil look at the thought of having two of them together much earlier and longer than cannon.
    “Why do you love my pain?”
    “But it’d be cool. And maybe Alibaba would be able to keep Sinbad away from the dark side!” “Hmmm.”

    So many ideas – Alibaba would have somewhere to do in his self-imposed exile . . . . knowing about Al-Thamen much sooner, he might smell a rat about his father’s sudden illness and death . . .

    My bunnies, having read too much of fiarellil’s Star Wars stuff, also like the idea of Sinbad being involved in the Magi world’s underground railroad. Sindria is supposed to be populated by people with nowhere else to go – someone escaping slavery likely equalifies . . . and darn it, I want him to do something constructive with that awful experience . . . Masrur is a total enabler in this operation. Maybe one of the people they end up helping is a little Fanalis girl who ends up tagging along with their exiled Balbadd prince.

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    1. Both being illegitimate and being 3rd son apparently didn’t matter in canon; Rashid wanted Alibaba to take the throne, and from the little we see of the two of them talking, Rashid was confident he could make it happen.

      …If you write a fic with bitty Alibaba and Rashid and Sinbad, I so want to read it. 🙂 Because given the thing Alibaba apparently loved in his education was trade, he and Ja’far would have a lot in common.

      Also, depending on when Sinbad found Alibaba (because the bunnies suspect Sinbad could find the kid in all of Balbadd), Anis might still be alive; she was until he was about 9, I think.

      And Sinbad working to get people freed/ help them escape would be awesome. Bitty Morgiana would be even cuter than canon!

      (Plus, can you imagine the pair of them growing up together? The chaos….)

      *G* And it might come down to, Alibaba went after Amon on purpose after all, and found Aladdin that way….

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